divergence into Saiyuki

[incandescens]

I finally realised something last night re the series Saiyuki, and kicked myself for not doing so before.

One big point is that our heroes declare they are fighting for themselves and for their own sakes -- and thus, largely, manage to sail through the opposition. On the other side we see the tragic prince Kougaiji, who has declared that he is fighting for his mother's sake, and usually ends up getting beaten. (Except for that time he got brainwashed -- ah, that it had lasted longer.)

I realised last night that what Kougaiji says is only half of a complete statement. The full statement would be, "I'm fighting for my mother's sake -- not because I actually want to."

And he loses.

Am self-kicking for not seeing this before.

---

To a Cat

Mirrors are not more wrapt in silences
nor the arriving dawn more secretive;
you, in the moonlight, are that panther figure
which we can only spy at from a distance.
By the mysterious functioning of some
divine decree, we seek you out in vain;
remoter than the Ganges or the sunset,
yours is the solitude, yours is the secret.
Your back allows the tentative caress
my hand extends. And you have condescended,
since that forever, now oblivion,
to take love from a flattering human hand.
you live in other time, lord of your realm -
a world as closed and separate as dream.

-- Jorge Luis Borges

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

And the moral of that, said the Duchess, is that killing people for the love of killing people is a virtue in Minekura-land and altruism = preterite. This keeps your heroes from hypocrisy and makes them very hard to like. You mustn't want to save your mother, or only as a side goal; you must want to smash that snotty monk's face for the pleasure of smashing that snotty monk's face.

And what does this make of Gokuu, who fights in Sandstorm to save Sanzou and in Against the Stream to save the little kid? both of which are seen, btw, as moral advancements in Gokuu's development. Is his altruism excused by his general love of a good barney? Or is Minekura playing favourites?
-mjj

[space-parasite.livejournal.com]

I take it as more of a "follow your own Way" thing. K, in turning aside from his own Way because of his attachment to something in the material/mortal world, is failing to make the best of his ability, or is rejecting his destiny (these two may be the same thing), so his power to change the world is not as great as that of the heroes, whose actions and natures are aligned.

Whether effectiveness and virtue are the same thing is a good question, and not one that I'm certain is well-answered in the series, but then I'm notoriously uncritical.

On the other tentacle, I've only seen the first season and the first couple of episodes of the second, so I may yet learn the error of my thinking.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course the first season has Kou in Sandstorm telling Gokuu he's learned his lesson and now he's fighting for himself- and getting ripped apart anyway. I don't know if that's in the manga- a brief blear-eyed rummage says no. But it certainly annoyed me deeply in the anime. Can't win this one, can we?
-mjj

[space-parasite.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Kou was incorrect? But that may be too many levels for such a story.

[incandescens]

Feh. Though if it's not in the manga, I'll give Minekura a little more credit for staying self-consistent.

[incandescens]

Personally I'd say that Minekura's playing favourites and that Kou isn't ever going to be allowed to win, on account of how that would seriously mess up the storyline. Which is a crying shame.

[naanima.livejournal.com]

Is okay, sometime it take awhile ^_-.

But seriously, I find myself, in the past two days, slowly re-submerging myself in 'Saiyuki'. I find myself desperately wanting a bit of 'I fight for myself,' attitude, and the need to immerse myself in the characters. I want to learn the quirks and the flaws of them once more. And thits is despite the a year break I've taken from them.

I feel an urge to hunt down 'Saiyuki Reload.'

*scurries off to study*

[incandescens]

Nothing wrong with going back to enjoy it again. Nothing at all.

Why, I do it myself constantly.

(As the dog returns to his vomit, as the sow returns to her mire,
As the burned Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the fire . . .)

[ukoku.livejournal.com]

I think Nii explained it that way at some point, prior to or during the brainwashing.... That Kou needed to get rid of his... personal reluctance.

Of course, then he STILL wasn't fighting for HIMSELF, but he lost again, so it remained true to form.

Mm... which makes me think, of course, that Nii certainly IS fighting only for himself... they'll have a hard time with that one.

[incandescens]

Indeed. By that logic, Ukoku (and Gyokumen) are definitely on top of the Self-Interest ratings.